A thorough cleaning and inspection of the transmission case revealed some more cracking:
Fortunately, this is the only primary attachment bolt that actually threads into the transmission case. The rest simply pass through and have a nut and washer on the back.
To add insult to injury, there is a piece of broken bolt imbedded in that hole...
Only another incurable gear-head can appreciate the relief that this picture represents. I successfully drilled the center of the bolt remnant, and got it out with the handle end of a rat tail file.
We'll see how Chris does on this one... Our plan is to install a helicoil after the weld repair, in hopes of preventing an instant replay.
Friday, December 21, 2012
Case Repair - Magic!
A close inspection of my engine cases caused great dismay, when I saw that there were small cracks forming on one case half, near one of the front engine mount bolts:
There is actually a companion crack underneath thats not visible in this photo...
Fuzzy at Classic Thunder recommended Chris Tveter (a.k.a "Tweeter") at Extreme Adrenalin to do the repair...
This is what it looks like now:
Nice work, Chris!!
There is actually a companion crack underneath thats not visible in this photo...
Fuzzy at Classic Thunder recommended Chris Tveter (a.k.a "Tweeter") at Extreme Adrenalin to do the repair...
This is what it looks like now:
Nice work, Chris!!
Generator drive - driving me batty
One thing that I knew was completely worn out, when I bought the Chief, was the generator drive. A generator drive sprocket inside the primary engages with the primary chain. The shaft for said sprocket passes through a bushing in the inner primary cover, and a pulley on the outside connects to a v-belt, which drives the generator..
The generator drive sprocket shaft is supported on both ends by brass bushings. They were so worn that the inner bushing had a clearance of about 3/32" instead of the .002" it should have... The shaft was heavily scored, and the inner primary was wallowed out to the point where the bushing fell out upon disassembly. Repairing all this was pretty involved...
Step one: Order a reproduction inner primary and inner and outer bushings.
Step two: press in the bushings. But wait... The outer bushing, which is supposed to be a light press fit in the primary cover, goes in by hand... not acceptable!
Step three: Make a new bushing with an oversize outside diameter! Atlas to the rescue!
Checking the bushing alignment and clearances with the new shaft:
Almost there. A gentle line-hone and I think we're back in business...
Step four: drill out the rivets holding the old sprocket to the shaft, transfer the sprocket, and re-rivet...
Step five: turn down the rivet heads you just painstakingly peened, until they are flush to the shaft shoulder, because the rivets are underneath a thrust washer (?) Who thought this up? I'm starting to have Sprite flashbacks...
Do you ever have the feeling that your hobby involves a certain amount of occasional mental illness? I could have been golfing or somehting normal!
Oh yeah, one final OCD detail... I added a modern rubber seal to the inner primary, to prevent the ever-present oil leak from behind the generator pulley.
The generator drive sprocket shaft is supported on both ends by brass bushings. They were so worn that the inner bushing had a clearance of about 3/32" instead of the .002" it should have... The shaft was heavily scored, and the inner primary was wallowed out to the point where the bushing fell out upon disassembly. Repairing all this was pretty involved...
Step one: Order a reproduction inner primary and inner and outer bushings.
Step two: press in the bushings. But wait... The outer bushing, which is supposed to be a light press fit in the primary cover, goes in by hand... not acceptable!
Step three: Make a new bushing with an oversize outside diameter! Atlas to the rescue!
Checking the bushing alignment and clearances with the new shaft:
Almost there. A gentle line-hone and I think we're back in business...
Step four: drill out the rivets holding the old sprocket to the shaft, transfer the sprocket, and re-rivet...
Step five: turn down the rivet heads you just painstakingly peened, until they are flush to the shaft shoulder, because the rivets are underneath a thrust washer (?) Who thought this up? I'm starting to have Sprite flashbacks...
Do you ever have the feeling that your hobby involves a certain amount of occasional mental illness? I could have been golfing or somehting normal!
Oh yeah, one final OCD detail... I added a modern rubber seal to the inner primary, to prevent the ever-present oil leak from behind the generator pulley.
Sunday, December 9, 2012
Thursday, November 22, 2012
Partially baffled?
My '47 Chief engine is totally disassembled now. Before I start to reassemble the bottom end, I might
need to do some case repair...
The baffles under the front cylinder flange are about 1/4 missing on the left case half, and about 2/3 missing on the right case half:
The baffles in the rear cylinder are umdamaged, except that they appear to have minor manufacturing defects (rough edged holes) on either side:
The engine was previously rebuilt, and has run without the baffles. In other words, no sign of the broken off pieces.
Anybody know how important is it to restore these baffles? Now would be the time, and I can try to find somebody local who can do it, but it it makes no difference, I would just as soon let it slide...
need to do some case repair...
The baffles under the front cylinder flange are about 1/4 missing on the left case half, and about 2/3 missing on the right case half:
The baffles in the rear cylinder are umdamaged, except that they appear to have minor manufacturing defects (rough edged holes) on either side:
The engine was previously rebuilt, and has run without the baffles. In other words, no sign of the broken off pieces.
Anybody know how important is it to restore these baffles? Now would be the time, and I can try to find somebody local who can do it, but it it makes no difference, I would just as soon let it slide...
Tuesday, October 30, 2012
Monday, October 22, 2012
Chief Bobber
I'm not normally a huge fan of post-1940 Indian bobber's. This one, of at least this one from this angle, is pretty cool.
I feel like I've seen that wheel and tire combination somewhere before recently...
I feel like I've seen that wheel and tire combination somewhere before recently...
Friday, October 12, 2012
Shoulda, coulda, woulda...
I have been reading "A Century of Indian", by Ed Youngblood. It's
well known that the seeds of Indian's demise may well have been sown in
1936 when, in the midst of the depression, Harley had the courage and
foresight to innovate the overhead valve Knucklehead. Meantime, Indian
hunkered down and continued to produce their Flattie.
It took Indian way too long to recognize that their venerable Chief was a capable chassis powered by an antiquated engine and transmission, dolled up with streamlined tins.
What I didn't know, till reading this book, is that Albert Crocker, of Crocker motorcycle fame, started in Indian's engineering department in 1909. In 1935 Crocker and Paul Bigsby developed and manufactured the incredible Crocker motorcycle.
In 1940, Crocker offered to sell his design and manufacturing rights to Indian... Imagine if Indian had taken him up on that offer...
Another road not taken involved the famous Vincent V-Twin engine. Indian evaluated a prototype for a new-concept Chief powered by a Vincent Series B Rapide engine. The running prototype exceeded 100 mph. I have seen pictures of "Vindians", but considered that they were Frankenstein hybrids emerging from some backyard garage; I didn't know Indian had seriously considered this option. Unfortunately, Vincent was in their final death throes too.
So Indian put all their eggs in the vertical twin basket. That might have worked too, if they had Edward Turner to design it. Unfortunately they didn't, and the Wigwam didn't live long after that.
It took Indian way too long to recognize that their venerable Chief was a capable chassis powered by an antiquated engine and transmission, dolled up with streamlined tins.
What I didn't know, till reading this book, is that Albert Crocker, of Crocker motorcycle fame, started in Indian's engineering department in 1909. In 1935 Crocker and Paul Bigsby developed and manufactured the incredible Crocker motorcycle.
In 1940, Crocker offered to sell his design and manufacturing rights to Indian... Imagine if Indian had taken him up on that offer...
Another road not taken involved the famous Vincent V-Twin engine. Indian evaluated a prototype for a new-concept Chief powered by a Vincent Series B Rapide engine. The running prototype exceeded 100 mph. I have seen pictures of "Vindians", but considered that they were Frankenstein hybrids emerging from some backyard garage; I didn't know Indian had seriously considered this option. Unfortunately, Vincent was in their final death throes too.
So Indian put all their eggs in the vertical twin basket. That might have worked too, if they had Edward Turner to design it. Unfortunately they didn't, and the Wigwam didn't live long after that.
Wednesday, October 10, 2012
What's under the covers?
Pulled the primary cover and transmission cover off of the Indian tonight. I was pretty pleased with the condition of what I saw...
The primary chain looks very good, and the engine and clutch sprockets look okay too. Mostly, I was impressed with how clean everything was. No gunk built up in the bottom at all.
Likewise, the internal parts in the transmission are very clean, with only a little evidence of wear. The simplicity of the Indian "crashbox" three-speed trannie made me laugh. It's about in neutral right now. Moving the sliding gear to the left is first, a little to the right is 2nd, and all the way to the right is 3rd (1:1).
Here you can see how the shifter mechanism engages the pin in the middle picture... I think I need to order some specialized tools to proceed from here...
The primary chain looks very good, and the engine and clutch sprockets look okay too. Mostly, I was impressed with how clean everything was. No gunk built up in the bottom at all.
Likewise, the internal parts in the transmission are very clean, with only a little evidence of wear. The simplicity of the Indian "crashbox" three-speed trannie made me laugh. It's about in neutral right now. Moving the sliding gear to the left is first, a little to the right is 2nd, and all the way to the right is 3rd (1:1).
Here you can see how the shifter mechanism engages the pin in the middle picture... I think I need to order some specialized tools to proceed from here...
Thursday, October 4, 2012
Thursday, September 27, 2012
Saturday, September 22, 2012
PDNYC Chief
I first saw this '48 Chief pictured in the Fall 2012 AMCA magazine:
It belongs to a man named Bob Preven. He rode it for more than a decade, then tore it down to restore, and promptly won an AMCA Junior First Award (to be followed later by a Senior award). The bike was on loan to the New York City Police Museum until recently.
This is very close to what mine will look like when complete. I really like the black rims, maroon paint, and the camel-colored saddle together. Note the standard Indian toolbox, mounted in a non-standard way. I guess this was a feature of the police bike, along with a special speedometer, calibrated in 2-mph increments, and a keyless ignition knob. Pretty cool!
It belongs to a man named Bob Preven. He rode it for more than a decade, then tore it down to restore, and promptly won an AMCA Junior First Award (to be followed later by a Senior award). The bike was on loan to the New York City Police Museum until recently.
This is very close to what mine will look like when complete. I really like the black rims, maroon paint, and the camel-colored saddle together. Note the standard Indian toolbox, mounted in a non-standard way. I guess this was a feature of the police bike, along with a special speedometer, calibrated in 2-mph increments, and a keyless ignition knob. Pretty cool!
Friday, September 14, 2012
Tires?
Trying to decide which tires I should get. I think I have it down to two choices:
Choice #1: Coker replica Indian script tire
Choice #2: Avon Safety Mileage Mk II
The Indian script is kinda cool, and the zig-zag tread pattern is supposed to handle better on rain grooving. On the downside, the Avon is supposed to wear better. Opinions?
Choice #1: Coker replica Indian script tire
Choice #2: Avon Safety Mileage Mk II
Thursday, September 13, 2012
More parts by Atlas...
Manufactured another part on the old Atlas lathe tonight. The end cap for my speedometer drive was lost somewhere along Route 66 between Tulsa and Albuquerque thirty years or more ago. Tried sourcing it from standard vendors, but they only had the whole speedometer drive ($$$!)
I found a cross-section drawing of the drive in the Indian Parts List, and made it from that.
The cap is an interference fit with the drive case. I made it .004" larger. Seemed to fit just right.
I found a cross-section drawing of the drive in the Indian Parts List, and made it from that.
Sunday, September 9, 2012
Sunday, August 19, 2012
Vintage Lace
Finally had the parts and the time to try lacing my rims. Original Indian hubs and rims that came with the bike, and Buchanon stainless spokes.
There were two different lengths of spokes, 6" and 6 1/8" The longer length go to the non-brake side, to achieve the offset. There are also different bends in the spoke heads, from 80 degrees to 95 degrees. Inner spokes have less bend. These spokes seem to be very high quality, and exactly match the OEM Indian spokes I took out.
I had good pictures of the original lacing to go from, and some guidance from the Virtual Indian Mailing List on how to proceed. It wasn't nearly as bad as I'd feared, and I am quite happy with the way they look. The powdercoating was thin enough I didn't have to drill out the rims or hubs.
Because of the difference in spoke length, the offset came out very close even before truing...
I did the 2nd wheel in about half the time it took to do the first.
I'm not sure I'm confident enough to true them myself. The Wheel Master in Auburn comes highly recommended, but I wish I could find someone who was willing to teach me.
I have a little more work to do to sort out hub and drum bearing components before I can get the truing done anyway... The chief has a very strange wheel bearing setup: one bearing is in the hub, and the other bearing is in the drum, so you need the drums to mount the wheel for truing.
Tuesday, August 7, 2012
Indian Family...
Borrowed from the AMCA Facebook page...
Need to put Indian Mike on the trail of this photo's provenance. The house and cinder block wall in the background sure reminds me of New Mexico.
Need to put Indian Mike on the trail of this photo's provenance. The house and cinder block wall in the background sure reminds me of New Mexico.
Monday, August 6, 2012
Progress...
No pictures to go with it, yet, but I passed a milestone of sorts with the Chief. I put something together... Assembled the chrome dress-up covers over the rear shocks. With the new powder coat and the covers, they look beautiful! I should hopefully have the shocks themselves reassembled and maybe even in the frame soon!
Also got new drum side bearings front and rear today, and new stainless spokes came with the shock covers... Debating whether to attempt wheel assembly myself...
Also got new drum side bearings front and rear today, and new stainless spokes came with the shock covers... Debating whether to attempt wheel assembly myself...
Saturday, July 21, 2012
Tuesday, July 17, 2012
Friday, July 13, 2012
Paint options?
As long as I'm demanding input from the artists, I am also soliciting input on paint schemes. My favorite right now is the maroon Indian from the last post, but I also like this black and gray two-tone paint a lot:
Another two-tone variation is this vintage 1950's picture I found on eBay, of a two-tone green paint job:
Some background... J Paul DuPont (of DuPont paint fame) was an avid motorcyclist, and would be savior of Indian Motorcycle Company. He gave them an infusion of capitol that delayed their demise until 1953 or so... The official 1948 order blank offers red, yellow, blue, black and green, but because of the DuPont connection, some restorers claim that you could special-order an Indian in any color that DuPont made...
I guess I am asking for input on two questions:
1) single color or two-tone?
2) what color(s)
Edited: color chart added by John.
Black and gray |
Some background... J Paul DuPont (of DuPont paint fame) was an avid motorcyclist, and would be savior of Indian Motorcycle Company. He gave them an infusion of capitol that delayed their demise until 1953 or so... The official 1948 order blank offers red, yellow, blue, black and green, but because of the DuPont connection, some restorers claim that you could special-order an Indian in any color that DuPont made...
I guess I am asking for input on two questions:
1) single color or two-tone?
2) what color(s)
Edited: color chart added by John.
Powdercoated wheels?
I've been scouring the internet for pic of Indians with Powdercoated rims. I suspect that powdercoat rims would cost about 25% of rechroming. Repop chrome rims are also an option, I guess, but these rims have served faithfully for this long...
Ok, I am soliciting some opinions regarding wheels... Especially from people with a well developed aesthetic sense (John, Sydney, English Steven) Repop chrome or powdercoat originals?
Ok, I am soliciting some opinions regarding wheels... Especially from people with a well developed aesthetic sense (John, Sydney, English Steven) Repop chrome or powdercoat originals?
Love the one in the foreground - note the rims... |
Another example of painted rims |
More traditional - chrome |
Wheels...
I have been working on the wheels (dismounting tires, and separating the welded together (yes, I said welded!) rear hub and drum. The good news? the rims are original Kelsey-Hayes rims. The following markings are on the inside of the rims
Now the bad news, sort of. I got a quote for rechroming these rims... I thought the pitting was fairly minor, but the estimate was $600. Let's just say powdercoated rims are growing on me...
Kelsey Hayes |
Size and manufacture date - 10/47 |
Not sure what this logo is... |
Now the bad news, sort of. I got a quote for rechroming these rims... I thought the pitting was fairly minor, but the estimate was $600. Let's just say powdercoated rims are growing on me...
Frame Repair
Sorry for the dearth of posts. Low morale after breaking the frame... Finally got the repaired frame back from Wasco. It was more $$$ than I expected, but the repair is complete.
Wasco fixed the crack (Indian uses cast iron rather than cast steel, and welding can be tricky). He also got the kicker stud out. A frozen kicker stud is what started this whole odyssey.
Also got Wasco to check/straighten the lower triple tree and check the fork leg alignment. All good now. The frame spent the weekend here, and is now at powdercoat. This restoration deal is a rich man's game...
Wasco fixed the crack (Indian uses cast iron rather than cast steel, and welding can be tricky). He also got the kicker stud out. A frozen kicker stud is what started this whole odyssey.
Also got Wasco to check/straighten the lower triple tree and check the fork leg alignment. All good now. The frame spent the weekend here, and is now at powdercoat. This restoration deal is a rich man's game...
Friday, June 8, 2012
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